[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign.
[00:00:05] Speaker B: The Future, a podcast about evolution and intelligent Design.
Welcome to ID the Future. I'm your host, Andrew McDermott. Hey, did you know Discovery Institute Academy offers innovative online science courses for homeschool students taught from the perspective that nature reflects intelligent design.
Well, today I'm welcoming to the podcast Kristin Murray and Summer Lyle, instructors of this year's biology and chemistry courses. Welcome to the podcast, ladies.
[00:00:36] Speaker C: Hey, thank you for having us, Andrew.
[00:00:38] Speaker A: Yeah, thank you very much.
[00:00:40] Speaker B: Yeah. Well, let's start with a bit of introduction from you both. Your educational background, your experience teaching, and why you love this subject that you've got going here. Let's start with Summer.
[00:00:53] Speaker A: I've been teaching for nine years. I taught biology and chemistry at a Christian school for seven, and then the last two, I've been teaching a science education methods course at Cornerstone University.
During that time, I'm pursuing my master's degree from Biola in science and religion. And I love biology because it's the one class that you get to ask all the questions you've wondered since you were a little kid.
[00:01:18] Speaker B: Right.
[00:01:19] Speaker A: I loved learning about birds and plants and insects when I was growing up. And so when I got to biology in high school, it was the first class where I got to actually study those things in school. And then the more you learn about it, the better it gets because you go deeper and deeper into all the details of how they're made.
[00:01:37] Speaker B: Even in your welcome video, you talk about bugs in your backyard and just how interesting those can be. And of course, our students think that as well. Now, Kristin, what about your background and your experience?
[00:01:49] Speaker C: Yeah, I have to tell you, I had to chuckle listening to my colleague Summer because for whatever reason, I think I was always interested in the non living things.
And I don't know why that is, but that really just kind of was an epiphany to me. As I'm listening to Summer on my end, I did a Bachelor of science in biochemistry and I went on to do a master's in teaching.
And I. I've done about 10 years of teaching experience in the public school sector. And Interestingly enough, about seven of those 10 years were in online instruction. And six of those seven years, and this makes totally, you know, makes total sense if you know, me were in chemistry. And I think you know where my love of chemistry started. It also was at a young age. And I distinctly remember encountering chemistry in high school.
And I've shared this story potentially with some of our listeners before, but I actually got in trouble on account of my love of chemistry.
Sitting in my high school chemistry course. I had an instructor that noticed that I was not participating, was not listening in class, and instead was reading my textbook, you know, throughout the class period. And so he, he noticed this and he pulled me aside after class and he said, kristen, I'm, I'm noticing that you are not participating in class and I want to know why.
And I have to tell you, Andrew, I was not the kind of young student that would get snippy with people or what have you. But all of a sudden words came out of my mouth that to this day I just cringe about because he was the nicest, most qualified science teacher you could imagine. I said, well, do you really want to know?
My goodness. He said, well, yes, I do. And I said, well, I don't think you're lecturing. Well, I don't know what possessed me to say that, what authority I was speaking on. I'm sure none.
And I just let him know that what I was doing in class was actually reading my textbook on my own and moving ahead and practicing problems.
But I think I just naturally gravitated towards chemistry. Everything about it just seemed to be very elegant, so organized. I loved its explanatory power for things around me like gas laws and you know, heat being absorbed or emitted, you know, say with cold packs and heat packs. All of those things I think just kind of led me to be like, you know, this is a subject that just makes sense of so much of my life and I want to teach this.
[00:04:15] Speaker B: Well, summer, your biology course is a new offering at Discovery Institute Academy. Can you give us a brief overview of the concepts you'll cover throughout the class?
[00:04:23] Speaker A: Sure thing. Yeah. It's very exciting that it's new. I think there's a really easy integration of ID with biology. There's tons of content already produced even by the Discovery Institute. So it's very fun to look at all that's available to us to study in id. But biology really is the study of life and life is really hard to define.
So instead of giving it this clear cut definition, we usually talk about it in terms of characteristics.
Things like a living thing uses energy and materials. A living thing interacts with its environment. A living thing has a genetic code.
So the classes broken down into units based on those characteristics of life.
So we'll study them one at a time and we'll talk about some of those really key integrations in terms of inheritance, cell structure and function, biochemistry. So a little bit of overlap with Kristen's class.
Ecology, anatomy, kind of all the things that you would expect to study in a biology course, but with that, elements of Intelligent design.
[00:05:39] Speaker B: Now Kristin, what about chemistry class? What are we getting out of that?
[00:05:42] Speaker C: Yeah, I mean, we want to ensure, Andrew, that both in Summer's biology class and in the chemistry class with me, that students really are getting all of the components of a traditional high school science course. And so in the case of chemistry, that first semester we're going to take time to first kind of identify, think through the scientific process, like many a science class, you know, will do, reminding students of those fundamentals channels of the scientific method.
We'll move into matter.
What is matter? What are atoms and how do they comprise matter? What are the structure of atoms, including what's the structure of how electrons are organized around the nucleus of the atom? And from there you start thinking about, well, how do atoms share and transfer those electrons in chemical bonds? And then from there the narrative moves forward and we say, well, how do we make and break those those bonds in chemical reactions? And then we start saying, well, are there specific types of reactions? And the answer to that is yes. And we start looking at those and then we go, okay, well now that I know there's these different types of reactions and now that I know that I can identify those, how can I use a chemical reaction to predict, like a chemist would do in a lab, how much product am I going to make or how much reactant am I going to consume? Your classic stoichiometry unit, which gives many adults on our listeners out there great fear. We try to take the fear out of that on the stoichiometry unit. And then as we move into second semester, students look at processes and I should mention actually stoichiometry is part of that second semester process. They look at behaviors of gases, properties of solids, liquid solutions, what reactions give off heat and take in heat, thermodynamics. Are there reactions that are reversible, equilibrium principles, spontaneity, acid spaces. And of course we end the year with the, the all fascinating nuclear chemistry unit as well.
[00:07:36] Speaker B: And you have been teaching your chemistry course for a few years now. How have students and parents responded to the classes?
[00:07:43] Speaker C: So we have had a good year so far. Andrew, I kind of put together for my own purposes earlier this year I took some student eval comments and data and kind of looked at that to see, you know, what were students and parents and guardians for that matter, both camps and how are they feeling about this model of instruction with Discovery Institute Academy. And so what I found is from the Students perspective. You know, when I asked them, one of the comments I asked them or questions I asked them is, you know, what do you guys enjoy?
Lots of comments, not surprisingly, Andrew, about the hands on labs, you know, one student said, I like the labs best because they show how or why we use all this information we are learning. So true.
90% of the students, which I think is really encouraging, found the course interesting, interesting and engaging. 90% of students found teacher feedback really helpful in their process of learning. So that's. We'll talk about this later. But that's an aspect of the tier one course that summer. And I can offer specific teacher feedback on students work to help them grow and revise their learning. A hundred percent of students felt like they learned a lot in this class. That's so encouraging to see that.
When we surveyed parents, I think a referral says a lot. And a hundred percent of our parents strongly agreed they would recommend this course to other homeschool families. I think two comments that kind of encompass a parent thinking on this. We had one parent who said, and I so appreciate this and I'm so understanding of this, especially some of our listeners out there again might have had some questions or concerns about the idea of, of online education. This particular parent said, quote, I did not like the idea of yet another virtual classroom for my student. But Kristen blew my expectations away. And she goes on later and she says the quality of this course is top notch all around. The syllabus is, is rigorous and unmistakably a high school chemistry course. And students will have to put in the appropriate time and effort into it to succeed. And I love what she ends with. She says, overall, I've been impressed, overly impressed, and I'm looking forward to future classes with the Discovery Institute. And so I think that is just a small snapshot, Andrew, of how the course this year for chemistry has been received from our students in the course and also from our parents and guardians.
[00:10:10] Speaker B: That's good to hear. Satisfying for both parents and students. Sometimes you get one and not the other, but you're hitting a home run there. Well, to make these courses as flexible as possible, as you mentioned, there are three tiers, three options. Summer, can you break that down for us?
[00:10:26] Speaker A: Sure thing.
Yeah. We wanted to offer some options for our students, for our parents based on where they're at and their homeschooling style. We have a tier one, which Kristin kind of mentioned. It invites students to participate in live weekly class discussions.
This is an opportunity for students to engage with their classmates and to engage with Us, and then we as teachers do give direct feedback to the students in the tier one group.
This is the highest level of interaction and consequently is a little bit more expensive than our tier 2 and tier 3 settings.
In tier 2, the teacher operates more like a tutor, so there's not direct feedback on homework or assignments or anything like that. But we do open up a weekly meeting for them to come and ask questions. It's more of a drop in for them to come and get their questions answered and maybe get some help with practicing questions, things like that.
And so the students have, have access to us, but in a, in a limited window. The third tier is for students who are looking for kind of an out of the box curriculum. This is something that they would take and complete at their own pace. So it's asynchronous. They will get the curriculum in full, but the answering questions and the grading will be the responsibility of the parents instead of us as the teachers. So it's a much more independent setup for students who really want to set their own pace and do coursework in their own time.
[00:12:11] Speaker B: Definite flexibility there. And that's good. That's good that you're offering that. And Kristen, you'd personally recommend tier one, obviously, for the level of interaction with a qualified teacher and classmates, but some families may find tier 2 and 3 just a better fit for their schedules or their budgets. I wanted to mention, though, that in all three tiers, families will have access to a complete sequenced course in discoveryU, which is the online portal for that, and parents who may not be proficient in chemistry or biology. You know, that sounds like a win.
[00:12:43] Speaker C: Absolutely. I mean, a huge amount of work when it comes to teaching is creating the curriculum, Summer. And I can vouch for that. That's been a huge part of our, quote, full time job, you know, is creating curriculum, curating curriculum, sequencing curriculum. And so I think what I want to say to our listeners is one of the reasons, you know, Summer just shared the three different tier models that we're offering for families. We did that, as you said, Andrew, to accommodate families that have different budgets and to accommodate families that have different schedules and even to accommodate families where in some cases, maybe you've got a highly qualified, you know, teacher in your homeschool group or, or even a parent who has a strong experience in biology or in chemistry. And you want to be the one to oversee your child and to share your enthusiasm and delight for that subject. Okay. That is one reason we're now offering tiers one and two and three to Offer that variation.
Now, if you're choosing tiers two and three as, as Andrew kind of was raising here, you're not losing out on the access to the curriculum in, in all three tiers, you're going to have access to a fully sequenced course in our Discovery U portal where readings, handouts, YouTube videos, pre recorded instructor lectures are all ready and available for use in, in all three tiers.
Furthermore, we're going to have Labster simulations that are accessible to families in all three tiers. These are terrific online virtual simulations that allow students, Andrew, to either carry out in a virtual capacity a lab that summer. And I would not be able to have, you know, access to these types of high tech laboratory materials or simply to visualize concepts that summer and I might be teaching in class and they get access to that through our Discovery Institute Academy subscription with Labster. So that's so cool.
Furthermore, all three tiers are going to have access to wet labs or hands on activities that is accessible to all three tiers. And finally, you know, and this is unique to the program, we're going to give you access to intelligent design concepts that are integrated into the curriculum. You might have, you know, as part of that as summer and my courses, you might be reading select Discovery Institute media within the Discovery U portal. And so there is just so much that all three tiers still have access to. Um, it is true. I would push for tier one because I think there's a wonderful opportunity for student to student interaction in that and there's nothing like having a qualified instructor providing assessment and lecture. But we are aware that is not the perfect model for every family and so we've got all three options.
[00:15:36] Speaker B: Well, summer, these courses are guided by textbooks indeed, but there is a definite hands on experience as we're alluding to. Can you tell us more about the wet labs and activities that students will be doing in your class?
[00:15:47] Speaker A: Sure thing. The wet labs, as Kristen mentioned, is really the most exciting part of this curriculum. And for parents who aren't interested in putting those things together for their students or maybe are concerned even about the amount of materials required or safety elements of those materials in their house, we've done our best to make them accessible and to make them affordable.
So Kristin can also speak to this. We've used home science tools to put together lists of materials that would be necessary or recommended for students to have for the wet labs.
But then even for biology specifically, I've worked really hard to simplify them as far as possible to make the labs compatible with items that you can find either at the grocery store or in your kitchen.
So using very practical materials, things like spinach and grapes and plastic cups. Right.
To convey and to give students the opportunity to apply the same content that they would in a high stakes.
[00:16:59] Speaker C: High.
[00:17:00] Speaker A: School classroom setting, but with less of the stress.
That's really the goal is to eliminate cost, to eliminate stress, to eliminate potential for accidents, since students will be working under parental supervision instead of in a setting with a full classroom.
So the wet labs are designed for student independence, for student success, and for a lot of fun.
It's really cool to actually see these ideas work out in front of you.
Like Kristin mentioned her student thinking about, wow, I can see why I had to learn all of that to get here. That's what we're really going for.
[00:17:40] Speaker B: Well, these courses, as we're alluding, offer the fundamentals of biology and chemistry, but they also have a unique component that makes them stand out from similar courses, and that's the integration of the evidence for intelligent design built right in. Can each of you comment just on what you think that will add to the students learning and maybe give us an example of, of something they'll be touching on.
[00:18:00] Speaker A: So this is the part of the curriculum that I am most excited about. Intelligent design shows up all over the place in the study of biology. And so my intention is to not only show students where it appears, but to teach them the skills to discover evidence of design on their own.
Since biology typically comes before chemistry, we'll even be laying a lot of the groundwork for the philosophy of science and those critical thinking skills that students need to be successful in all of their science courses.
Some of my favorite examples include the fine tuning of earth for life and the complexity of the human body, which we'll be spending an entire unit on. Since we're following a well known secular textbook.
These are connection points for evolution throughout every unit. It has an element to it that kind of explores what's the natural selection, evolution, Darwinian explanation for how this came about.
What we'll do is we'll take those claims and we'll compare them to the claims made by intelligent design theory.
And students will learn how to argue from either side in order to create a really holistic worldview regarding intelligent design and evolution.
[00:19:18] Speaker C: I love what Summer just shared, and I think it really hits at something that is true for both of our classes. You know, in your standard kind of typical scientific classroom setting for high school students, that the way that science is going to be presented to them is going to be one in which a materialist paradigm of, you know, whether it's Darwinian evolution in a, in a biology classroom setting or whether it's chemical evolution in, in more of a chemistry classroom setting, they're going to walk away with the idea that everything that they've encountered within that, within that science course can be explained, you know, through a purely blind and guided natural process. In what Summer and I, in a lot of ways are doing is actually saying to students, well, actually, there's an overwhelming and growing body of evidence that's suggesting that these features are not the product of a blind and guided process. They're actually the product of design.
And so in the case of a, the chemistry course, one of the things that the students do is they look at, for example, in unit three, when they're thinking about light, the properties of light, the electromagnetic spectrum, they, in the chemistry class, go ahead and take a look at some of Michael Denton's writings on children of light. And they consider how the sun in the full electromagnetic spectrum, where a small, tiny fraction of that is the right light and right heat for complex life. And then they consider how our atmosphere is finely tuned to permit that, that right light and right heat to reach us. You know, similarly, when students start learning terminologies about water, such as its viscosity, its high specific heat capacity, it's, it's a terrific universal solvent.
Again, they circle back to some of Michael Denton's work and they look at the wonder of water and specifically, how is water not just remarkable in and of itself, but integral to the processes of plate tectonics and the hydrological cycle.
I think for both Summer and I, one thing I will maybe just summarize or take away here is that we have tried not to just toss you intelligent design concepts, but integrate them directly where they belong in the curriculum. You know, and I think that's. That is really, really a cool approach. Right, Because I think a student is going to get more understanding of an ID related argument if they have the necessary underlying background science understanding under their belt. And then they consider how ID might relate to this topic.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: Exactly. It really does function as the perfect integration. You know, as kids are learning about cells, for example, teach them about the evidence for intelligent design at the cellular level. You know, when you're talking about the fossil record, you can teach them about that, but then also teach them the reality of it. As, as intelligent design has shown, you know, it's just a great way to go about it. Now, Kristen, this past year you had students at a homeschool co Op joining your weekly chemistry live sessions from their local campus and from home. Tell us how that option worked out.
[00:22:25] Speaker C: I will tell you when I first kind of thought this was going to be happening, Andrew. I scratched my head and said, well, this is going to be new.
I'd never done anything quite like this before. I had taught in an asynchronous online capacity, which means that you have students who, who are enrolled in your online course and are progressing through the course independently at their own pace. So you might have a student in unit one and another student working in unit five and so forth. Then I had taught in more of a synchronous online capacity like I did with Discovery Institute Academy, where your students are progressing through an online course at the same pace, meeting with you in weekly online sessions. But this to me was how do we, how do we create a bridge between a physical brick and mortar campus of students and an online course?
And so what transpired, actually, Andrew, has turned out to be a very interesting model. And for my co op family listeners out there, I'd love to just give you a sneak peek of kind of how this ended up panning out. There was a parent facilitator that was on the local co op campus that joined with us and she essentially, she was such a big part of kind of helping this work, Andrew. What she did was she would go on campus on their, on campus days, Mondays and Wednesdays. And on Mondays, which was a non lecture day for us, she used that as a day to meet with the students and actually organize, coordinate and oversee the labs with the students. And I will tell you, those co op families were so grateful to have a designated parent kind of take that on because I, I have to be honest, the chemistry labs do require quite a bit of materials. They're ordered with a click of a button on a wish list. But there's a lot that goes into doing chemistry labs. And so it was terrific for the students having access to that. They're totally, they can absolutely be done at home. I want to clarify that. No problem at all or designed to be done at home. But it was wonderful that for the co op students to do them together on Mondays and then Wednesdays, the students would again be on campus and would join lecture from kind of a big conference table of sorts in a classroom where I had all their faces on a single camera and a microphone was set up in the classroom. And so it had a little bit of like a, again a classroom vibe about it, like a traditional classroom vibe. And the students also joined me for our second lecture of the week from home.
So it was a really interesting model, kind of how it all worked out. And I think in the end, I think there was a good positive experience.
I should say one other thing, Andrew, for. For our co op families kind of out there who are thinking about something like this and thinking about Discovery Institute. Let me end saying this to you guys. I think if you are a co op who already has, for example, a really qualified teacher on campus or a parent or guardian who's already, you know, passionate and experienced with this subject area, but you still want access to the course and to the intelligent design pieces, by all means consider enrolling your students in our tiers two and three and then you've got access to that curriculum. But you can pace that out and assess and oversee that in a way that works for you and your students.
But if you're a co op who maybe you're in need of a teacher, you know, you don't have somebody to fill that biology or chemistry slot, or you have a very flexible bell schedule or academic calendar and want to fit into Discovery Institute Academy's you know, session schedule and academic calendar for the Tier 1 live version of the course. By all means, you can enroll your students in tier one and have Summer and I handle all of the instruction, assessment and oversight for your students. So both models are out there and available.
[00:26:20] Speaker B: Well, we should point out how credit works. There might be some parents out there who are wondering how you can apply credit to these courses. Samara, can you tell us how credit works with Discovery Institute Academy courses and what's best suited for families and how parents play an important role?
[00:26:37] Speaker A: Yeah, the course really is best suited for homeschooling students. As Kristin mentioned, a co op or individual students in their homes.
Since Discovery Institute Academy is not a credit granting institution and does not offer courses for academic credit, ultimately the parent or guardian gets the final say on the student's grade. These courses are designed for high school students and if there are any recommended prerequisites, they're listed in the syllabus. But parents and guardians are encouraged to email both Kristen and I about any questions that they might have as they consider the their specific student. We know that there are some students in middle school, for example, that have the necessary strong reading levels to tackle the courses or even the algebra background to tackle the chemistry. So we want our students to be prepared for the course. But if there's questions about what that level of preparation is, parents, guardians should absolutely just reach out.
[00:27:37] Speaker B: Well, as we wrap up our little chat today. I'd like to give each of you just a moment to make a final pitch for the course that you're teaching directly to students and parents who might be listening today.
[00:27:47] Speaker C: Sure, Andrew. And again, thank you so much for having us on today. I mean, Summer and I are so excited about what is transpiring and I'm so excited to have Summer's biology class rolling out alongside the chemistry course for next year to our, our listeners out there.
You know, I guess the greatest pitch that I could give is that I wish I had had access to this when I was in high school.
I recall being a student as early as middle school who was having questions about how did things come to be the way that they are. And I didn't have access to a course like this, you know, and those questions kind of continued to nag and pester me on into high school, on into college. And it was only when I encountered intelligent design related thinking that some of those questions kind of subsided a bit.
And so I think the greatest quote pitch that I could give to our listeners is that I wish that I had had a class like this for me when I was in high school.
[00:28:51] Speaker B: Well, it's a gift you are now giving to your students. So that's awesome. How about you?
[00:28:55] Speaker A: I feel like Kristen just said everything I was thinking.
I couldn't agree more. I also was the student who just struggled with some of these big questions starting in probably ninth grade. And they really did carry on until I started pursuing my master's degree. And I just would love to provide that opportunity for these biology students. I think there are a lot of students who go through homeschooling, go through public schooling, get to college, and are still faced with some of these questions, wonderings about how the world works and does this align with my worldview and other things that I understand about how the world works. And to equip students with the evidence, but also with the skills to discover that evidence for themselves, gives them the confidence to embrace education, embrace conversations that might be challenging.
And I think that's the greatest gift we can give our students.
[00:29:57] Speaker B: And as Dr. Douglas Axe wrote in his book Undeniable How Biology Confirms Our Intuition that life is designed. We all have this built in design intuition, and our students are going to have that too. But sometimes in traditional classes, traditional setups, they're not going to be able to make the connection between what their intuition's telling them and what they're being taught in class.
And what makes your courses so awesome is that they can, they're encouraged. That's part of the class, you know, to connect that intuition with what they know about life and what they've observed since they were born and right into what you are teaching them. So it's quite a wonderful opportunity.
[00:30:39] Speaker C: I so resonate with what you just said, Andrew. And I would add, like, I think our classes afford the opportunity for students to say which explanation makes the most sense, you know, for what I'm learning in this course, whether it's a biology or chemistry course, which, which piece of evidence, what direction is it pointing in? And then what overarching explanation seems to be the best explanation, you know, for what I have been learning?
That is such a cool thing that they get to do in these courses.
[00:31:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. Give them the final say. Let them evaluate both sides of the question and, and make up their minds. That's, after all, what we want them to do. Let's just mention to listeners how they can reach out, how they can register, get more information.
There is a website, DiscoveryInstitute Academy, and for a limited time, actually, parents who register their student can get 50 bucks off tuition.
And as a homeschooling parent myself, I can testify that any kind of discount is helpful when it comes to the costs associated with educating our kids at home.
And even if you don't have kids, listeners who can participate, can you help us get the word out to those who do forward this episode or simply a link to discoveryinstitute Academy. It has all the details there and even a welcome video from the two of you that will give them some more information.
And of course, you can register right there on the website discoveryinstitute Academy. Well, thank you very much, Kristen sommer and for ID the Future, I'm Andrew McDermott. Thank you listeners for enjoying the content.
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[00:32:23] Speaker A: Its center for Science and Culture.
