[00:00:05] Speaker A: ID The Future, a podcast about evolution and intelligent design.
[00:00:12] Speaker B: Does Intelligent design have a better answer for the origin of the universe and the origin of life than the standard Neo Darwinian explanation?
Today, we'll enjoy the second half of a conversation about intelligent design with Dr. Casey Luskin and his wife, Kristin Murray that originally aired on the Apologetics Profile podcast with host Daniel Ray.
Kristin teaches an online high school chemistry class for Discovery Institute Academy. Casey is a scientist and attorney and associate director of Discovery Institute's center for Science and Culture.
Now, here in part two, the trio discuss why Intelligent Design can offer a more satisfying explanation and for the origin of the universe than competing theories like the multiverse.
Cayce also reviews the evidence for the fine tuning of the laws and constants of the universe that allow for life, as well as the argument for design evident in the natural world.
Kristin provides more detail about an important resource that's offered at the Discovery Institute, her online high school chemistry course, and what students will get out of it.
And if you have an interest in engaging in the debate over evolution and the origin of life and the universe, Kristen and Casey have tips and advice on what to study and how to foster dialogue on those important topics.
Now let's get back to the conversation with Casey Luskin and Kristin Murray.
[00:01:39] Speaker A: The way that ID responds to this is to say we're talking about where we can defensibly detect design. Okay? There may be other things in nature that are designed and we're not able to detect it, but ID Is much more concerned about having false positives in the arguing for design than it is about having false negatives. Okay? So we're actually being ultra cautious is what this really comes down to.
[00:02:04] Speaker C: Okay?
[00:02:04] Speaker A: We're only going to say that something is designed if we can make a very, very strong case for intelligent design. And. And we can really definitively rule out other possible causes as that those being the explanation within reason. Okay? And so this really comes down to ID not wanting to commit a God of the gaps argument. We're also accused of God of the gaps. You know, so sometimes we're inferring design too much, and sometimes we're inferring design too little. Well, which is it? You know, the reality is we're not saying that, you know, that only Mount Rainier, or, sorry, only Mount Rushmore was designed. What we're saying is that this is where we can scientifically detect design. All right? Now, obviously, I do think that natural forces are the best explanation for Mount Rainier. I don't think that you should be detecting Design in that case. Now, I am also a Christian theist, so in a broader sense, I believe that all things were ultimately designed by God. But in some cases God might intervene in a way where his divine direct action in the world is detectable, and in other cases he. He might use natural causes. So that's really the question that we're asking. We're not asking about some theological question. Oh, in some theological sense, is everything ultimately designed? No, we're talking about where can we detect design? Where can we see that intelligent cause was directly responsible? And where does it look like some natural mechanism, some material, physical cause is the cause and we can do this through science. That's the kind of question that idea is asking.
[00:03:37] Speaker C: Gotcha. So it's just being overly cautious because to clarify, Intelligent design as a scientific theory does not begin with the presupposition of any particular religion, or it doesn't even start with Genesis. It starts with looking at what is easily, most easily identifiable. What we might want to call minimal design argument. Here's what we recognize in our human technologies and artifacts and, and here's how we see that playing out in the natural world. That's kind of the gist of it. So the Mount Rainier, Mount Rushmore is just an overly cautious example of the philosophy of Intelligent Design, not necessarily creation as taught in the Christian scriptures.
[00:04:22] Speaker A: Yeah. And to get back to you, you're absolutely right. ID is not a religiously based concept. There are folks from many different worldviews or, you know, religious and non religious backgrounds who find very strong, strongly convinced that intelligent design is correct and they see evidence for design in nature. We have folks in the ID community from a Christian background, of course, or Jewish or, you know, Muslim, but also folks from Eastern religious persuasions or folks who are agnostic or even atheist who say, look, you know, I believe there's evidence for design. I don't know who the designer is, I don't believe in a personal God. But they still see that there's evidence for an intelligent design behind these things.
[00:05:04] Speaker C: Absolutely.
[00:05:05] Speaker D: I would love to jump in for a sec because this is triggering something that I just completely forgot about, that I had a really cool experience about a week or two ago with one of the families in my class.
[00:05:17] Speaker C: Yeah.
[00:05:18] Speaker D: And so clever. This dad has been following the intelligent design issue for a long time. And when his son, who's now in my class was about, I think, three or five years old, maybe he was five, dad decided to get up early in the morning and he went outside on the driveway and using Some white rocks. He arranged them to say his son's name. And in big bold letters, his son's name was on the driveway.
And he called his son to come outside and see the rocks.
And I just love, he sent me the YouTube video of this because he recorded his son's response. His little 3, 5 year old son goes outside and instantly he looks at the rocks, he says his name because he sees his name in the pattern of the rocks and he goes, who did this?
Who did this? You know, and I think what's really interesting about that, that's relevant to the comments that Casey was just making about the fact that ID can appeal to people, whether they're atheist, agnostic, what have you, is you don't have to know who or what the nature of the designer is to already intuitively know something is designed. You know, that five year old child like just instinctively put together that these letters were arranged in a pattern that communicated a specific meaning.
And without knowing that it was his dad or whoever it was, he instantly knew this was not the product of erosional processes on his driveway that, or, or you know, a hurricane that went by that threw rocks in the air and they landed in this pattern, you know, And I think the same goes for us as we engage with, with science, with design, it, what, what have you, as we look at structures, features, what have you in biology, chemistry, we can simply ask, is this designed?
And we don't need to know anything else. Like does it have the hallmarks of something that appears to be the product of intelligence? Well, if it does, okay. Meets the litmus test.
[00:07:43] Speaker C: And I think ID can provide a nice conversational bridge between you and somebody else who's not of your persuasion.
I met, when you guys, I met you guys in Denton in February when you were here for the conference.
I had talked to some Mormons that were there at the conference. And I go to Utah every year, twice a year to engage with Latter Day Saints.
And so this ID thing is a wonderful bridge because you have folks like David Berlinsky, David Gallanter, I don't think he's in the id, but he was certainly persuaded by Steve Meyer's book. He's a brilliant mathematician. There's that interview with him several years ago who had been thoroughly convinced by Darwin's doubt, Steve's book, Steve Meyer's book, that Darwin has failed. And it seems like that you guys are old enough to remember the Scott Baio Charles in charge.
Yeah, so it's like that's what our culture is today. It's like Charles in charge. We got Charles Lyell and Charles Darwin, and we're hanging on to every word that they say. You know, it's like this is the paradigm. We have to obey these men, their principles of geology or the origin of natural species by means of natural selection.
And it seems like at all costs to save the paradigm. Casey. It seems like as we've been talking here, that that seems to be where it stops. But it's interesting what Kristen said.
The who the child instantly knew, that it was intuitively personal.
And it seems like Freeman Dyson, the late physicist, said this, and I quoted him in our book that I wrote several years ago.
It looked to Dr. Dyson that the universe looked like it knew we were coming.
And so there's. And when you read the technical literature, I try to read the abstracts of some of these deeper papers. When I'm talking to atheists, the language is very personal. I mean, it's got engineering terms, technology terms, data terms, information terms. And yet in all of that, they're telling themselves that we can't speak purposely about. About nature. It seems to be one of the hardest cognitive kinds of examples of cognitive dissonance, I would think. It's awfully painful to say, and I think it was even Fred Hoyle describing what would happen to you if you decided to pursue the idea that the universe was designed. Here is the quote from cosmologist Dr. Fred Hoyle, speaking candidly of why he thinks many scientists do not take the idea of design and purpose in the universe seriously.
It is, he thinks, because it would likely jeopardize the professional careers of scientists themselves.
Either the universe is more complex than we think in that variations of the laws are realized, in which case we happened to pick out the particular choices that are suited to our existence. Or the universe is teleological, with the laws deliberately arranged by some agent to permit our existence.
The latter view is, of course, common to most religions. But it were better for a scientist to have a millstone hung around his neck than that he should admit to such a belief. Yea, verily, if he does so, his papers will be rejected. He will receive no financial assistance in his work. The publishers of his books will receive threatening letters, and his children will be waylaid on their way home from school. As well might he seek to pass through the eye of a needle, for to hold such a view is the greatest possible scientific heresy. End quote. I hope you caught the biblical allusions in Fred Hoyle's quote there. But lest you think Hoyle's quip Sounds far fetched. Consider the testimony of another Discovery Institute fellow, Dr. Eric Hedin, who in 2012 and 2013 at Ball State University in Indiana, started teaching a course he designed called the Boundaries of Science.
A professor of biology at the University of Chicago, an atheist, Dr. Jerry Coyne, got wind of the course and simply assumed without any corroborating evidence that Hedin was teaching religion and creationism. Coyne then began a campaign with the Freedom from Religion foundation to get Hedin's course removed from the curriculum. Even though Coyne and the University of Chicago had no direct or immediate connection to Hedin or Ball State University.
Here is Dr. Hedin himself giving a.
[00:12:12] Speaker E: Brief account of what happened the spring of 2013. A prominent atheist and evolutionary biologist named Jerry Coyne wrote a letter to the chair of my department at Ball State. And he had gotten a hold of the course syllabus for the Boundaries of Science course and was accusing my department chair, saying, this course syllabus indicates that religion is being taught under the guise of science, as it says here, preaching rather than teaching. And that led to follow up threats from the Freedom from Religion foundation to the university, sent letters to the president and the board threatening to sue the university over my course. It's like, okay, you know, I was an untenured faculty member just trying to enjoy teaching. And suddenly national news. And then of course, the university administration began to investigate and set up an ad hoc committee composed of ironically professors who were not objective on the questions, but actually most of them quite antithetical to the idea of there being designed.
And that led to the eventual cancellation of the course. But that was after a long period of sort of media turmoil and articles written that were misrepresenting what I was teaching, such as pushing religion down students throats and that I was teaching creationism or even that I was teaching intelligent design.
And I thought that was strange. I don't actually remember ever mentioning the words intelligent Design in my class. I just presented scientific evidence and had the students discuss whether or not this can be explained naturally or what are the implications and let them draw their.
[00:14:11] Speaker C: Own conclusions, professionally speaking.
That's got to be a stopper for a lot of people. Casey, do you run into that, that people. A lot of times people just don't want to embrace this because literally their professional careers would be in jeopardy.
[00:14:27] Speaker A: Oh, all the time, Daniel, all the time. I mean, this happens on a weekly basis. We meet a scientist who is supportive of intelligent Design and they would like to be open about it. You know, these are not people who are trying to suppress intelligent Design. It's just that they know that if they were to come out of the closet and express their support for id, they could lose their careers, they could lose their positions in academia. They might be graduate students where they may be risking getting their graduate degrees, or maybe they do get the degree, but then they're going to be blacklisted because nobody wants to take them on as a postdoc or hire them as a faculty member because people don't want you in academia. Obviously there are some universities that are open to intelligent design, but they tend to be dramatically in the minority, unfortunately. So this is a real problem and this is one of the biggest obstacles that that ID faces these days is the intolerance towards people who are openly pro intelligent design. Yeah, it's, it's a, it's a real issue.
I could tell many, many horror stories.
[00:15:32] Speaker C: Let's talk a little bit about the course because this seems to be something. Do you find.
Talk a little bit about the course and then how is this helping families as you see it? I mean, how is this helping to, to normalize or to, to bring back? I mean, because as we're talking about ideas, I'm looking at this and reading all the history of it. This isn't really novel. I mean, we're really just standing on the shoulders of the natural philosophers of the medieval era and forward because they all assume intelligent design. I didn't call it this necessarily, but science begins because the natural philosophers assume the universe to be intelligible. I mean, and it's. So this seems like it's a, it's, it's having a resurgence. It's really just sort of bringing back what, what began science in the first place. That the intelligibility of the universe and life within it was, was designed that way. But how do you see your course and your interaction with children and families, the wonderful story you just told with the dad?
How is this breaking in and, and making a difference as you see it?
[00:16:34] Speaker D: Yeah, I think. Let me paint a picture of what the course structure looks like to help our listeners just get a gist, you know, what's going on in these classrooms as a starting point, especially because a lot of parents and guardians out there, understandably when you raise the word virtual classroom, many of them get very anxious because it doesn't always have positive connotations. Sometimes people think that's a very cold, disconnected, non engaging way to instruct. And so I want to maybe clarify that that's not the approach that we're using and what does it look like in our classroom? So we are a non credit bearing institution first of all. So Discovery Institute Academy is offered through Discovery Institute and as a result of that we are attracting homeschool families primarily or homeschool co ops, potentially even some private schools that are interested as well. But we've been primarily attracting homeschool students and their families and on a day to day basis the course has kind of three, three platforms that are involved in it. One is we've got a wonderful discoveryU portal in which all of the students curriculum is sequenced for them. And so for example within the, in the context of that portal and we might have say a pre recorded lecture that I will post followed by a YouTube video that I've curated that I think is excellent that you know is, is a professional YouTuber out there who does terrific chemistry content. Well, I'm going to borrow, I'm going to use you, I'm going to feature that, you know, and then maybe after that I, I want you to segue to maybe a really good website to do some instructional reading. All right. So all of these different facets are available for students. It's, it's not like how you and I went to school Daniel, where you had only one recourse to learn and that was your textbook in class.
We have at our disposal today on the web so many incredible resources that we want to tap into. And so I have taken the time as has my colleague Summer in biology to curate, create and sequence this information in Discovery use portal. And so that's one facet of the class is students progressing through that material. But the other part of it is giving students access to hands on activities.
So if they're enrolled, say in my chemistry class, I do have wet labs that are labs that they can do at home. And these are standard chemistry labs. As a former chemistry teacher in a brick and mortar school, you know students can detect the percent yield of a chemistry reaction at home. Students can determine what's the percent composition of a compound in terms of its water content or students can perform basic precipitation reactions and so forth. These are things that they can do and they can order a full fledged chemistry kit with glassware and chemicals from a chemistry supplier.
The third thing is in addition to hands on labs, the other piece to the classes, students can, can participate in virtual labs not in exclusion to or in exchange, you know, but actually in addition to hands on activities. And so they get to manipulate things in a virtual lab or oftentimes labs that you or I wouldn't have access for kids to do anyway with high tech equipment, but in a virtual setting or just visualizing concepts that, you know, I might teach them in class.
Finally, they meet with me twice a week in live zoom sessions. And those are sessions where I'm both teaching and fielding questions and working problems with them in real time. I've got a graphics tablet that just like a teacher would in a classroom, writing back in, back in the day on a chalkboard. I am working stuff out Khan Academy style on a tablet that they can see in real time. That's awesome.
[00:20:41] Speaker C: That's great.
The big question is, do you reveal the mystery of why Mentos explodes in Diet Coke? I want to know that.
[00:20:52] Speaker D: I have to laugh because I just gave a talk at a school and as part of the talk, I featured Mentos and Coke. Yeah, this was about two weeks ago. And so I spent, I spent a ridiculous amount of money buying multiple bottles of Coke.
[00:21:07] Speaker A: And we've been exploding a lot of Coke around the house lately, let me tell you. Okay, well, Coke all over the front yard.
[00:21:13] Speaker C: That must have been Jesus, because I didn't know. But I just. How, how did, why does that happen?
We'll save that. We'll save that for the course. You need to. If you want to find out how Mentos or why Mentos explodes in Diet Coke, you need to sign up for Kristen's course.
We'll put all that information in the notes of the episode so you can follow up with that.
Casey. Now Kristen's appealing to children.
I feel like I'm now enjoying the fruits of the adult side of this thing. It's the first time I've gotten into the summer course. And I can't believe this. When I first found out about it last spring at the Eclipse out here in Waxahachie, when you guys were out, not you, but the Discovery Institute was out, I was like, what's the, what's the Summer Institute thing? So I was keeping my eye out for it. I can't believe this amazing thing.
What is Discovery doing for adults? And people, like, are just getting into this or are fascinated by it, who want to follow up with it.
What can folks hearing this for the first time, it's like, how do I get into this ID stuff? What can I do? What's out there for me?
[00:22:21] Speaker A: Absolutely. I mean, we try to get the message out through whatever avenues we can. Daniel. Of course, there's our YouTube channel, which has lots of great lectures, videos, animations, all kinds of resources that you can watch while you're you know, working. You want something in the background. Listen to Steve Meyer giving a lecture on intelligent design. So we've got a lot of materials on our YouTube channel. We also have, actually online
[email protected] where if folks want to really dive deep, they can. Some of them are paid, some of them are free, but you can actually take courses taught by leading ID scientists. And it's a great way to learn about the topic and feel like, you know, Stephen Meyer or Jonathan Wells or Doug Axe or Michael Behe is your teacher. And taking these, they're not literally, you know, teaching the course live, but you can watch videos, you can do readings, you can take quizzes, and. And they're great ways to learn.
We also have, of course, books that we publish. Do people still read books? I'm not sure, but if they do. Okay. Okay. I mean, I read books, too, but, you know, obviously not as popular as it used to be. But we do publish books through Discovery Institute Press on intelligent Design. And then, of course, we do media, like we're doing right now with you. We do lots of podcasts. We have id. The Future is Discovery Institute's dedicated intelligent design podcast. And then we have evolutionnews.org, which is our daily news site, where we have articles coming out every day on the topic of evolution and id. So it's great. Another great resource.
[00:23:48] Speaker C: And you. I should tell everybody, you guys are husband and wife.
Quite the dynamic duo. I met you guys in February.
It was a delightful experience to meet you both. And the whole conference of Science and Faith, you have these throughout the communities in the United States. The one you have here in Dallas is fantastic.
It's overwhelming. I mean, you get. The whole crew is at one of these conferences.
I want you guys to talk, or Casey, talk a little bit about this summer institute as well, because there are people that would be. That would love this. I mean, I didn't know about it, you know, and I'm in my. I'm entering my old man yells at cloud phase of life. And this is like I'm a kid in a candy store again. So I feel young again, having to go back to school and. And read stuff and be challenged. And then I get to go to Colorado for a week. This is awesome. What is this?
[00:24:40] Speaker A: Yeah. The way I put it, Daniel, is you've got to reverse the flow. You're used to things coming out of your brain. You got to reverse that flow and figure out how to stuff things back into your brain.
[00:24:48] Speaker C: That's right.
[00:24:49] Speaker A: I totally get that. Yeah. By the way, you mentioned our Dallas conference. I mean, I totally forgot that's where we met you. Yes, and the Dallas are conferences that we do. Various places around the country each year are another great way for the public to get engaged with this issue. So, yeah, I think our Dallas conference is our biggest annual conference. We do it in Dallas because that's a central location. We have folks come in from all over the country. We had people come even from abroad for the Dallas.
[00:25:13] Speaker C: I apologize. I apologize on behalf of the Metroplex for our traffic. It is awful. But Denton, Denton's not bad.
But real quick, what is this summer institute stuff?
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Our summer institute, sure. So we have a summer program called our Summer Seminars on Intelligent Design. They take place every year, basically the last week of June. And you can come and learn from top ID scientists for a week in person in Colorado Springs. Now, the catch is it's largely, not exclusively, but largely for students. We're talking about college students, graduate students, and sometimes, occasionally recent grads, but postdocs, junior faculty, that kind of stuff. You must be very special, Daniel, because we only reserve a few slots every year for folks who actually really are.
[00:26:00] Speaker C: Are you kidding? Really?
[00:26:02] Speaker A: Yeah, you're. You're. You're one of the chosen few to get in when you're, when you're entering your quote unquote old man phase of life. I mean. Yeah.
[00:26:08] Speaker C: Old man yells at cloud, gets into Discovery. Wow.
[00:26:11] Speaker A: Yeah. Well, you know, you must have done something right. So the vast majority of the. Of the people who come are our students. And we, we. So if you are a student, we reserve it primarily for students who are college level, junior class or above. But if that's you, go to our website, discovery.org SEM S E M as in Mary, and you can learn more about the program. Now, unfortunately for our 2025 program, of course, it's already sort of started. We're already full for this year. But we do, we do it every year. We'd love to get more students there, and it's a lot of fun.
[00:26:45] Speaker C: Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. How many. What's the total crew for one of these? Like, like the student. Like everybody that's there.
[00:26:52] Speaker A: Students. It's between 45 and 50 every year. We also have an online seminar, which is more for students who live outside the United States because it's very difficult to bring folks in with visa restrictions, that sort of thing. So we do an online seminar. That's nice because we can accommodate more people through the online program as well. And so you can go either way, depending upon where you live and what suits you best. Yeah.
[00:27:15] Speaker C: All right, now, just as we wrap up here, I'm going to give each of you a minute for a mic drop soundbite your best wisdom for Christians, non Christians, theists, non theists about how to think about design in nature. Kristen, you go first.
[00:27:30] Speaker D: Oh, wow. I have never been asked that question before.
I wish Casey was going first.
[00:27:36] Speaker A: You want me to go first? I can go first.
[00:27:38] Speaker C: Okay, go for it.
[00:27:39] Speaker A: All right, I'll speak from my experience when I was a student. Let's say I'm talking to students right now and it's this. Don't pass up any opportunity you have to study the origins topic. Okay? So if you are being, you know, given the choice of what elective are you going to take next semester? And there is an elective course at your school on science and faith, or maybe you're at a, you know, public university. It's a course on the origin of life and evolution. Maybe you don't even agree with evolution. You know what? Don't pass up the opportunity to take that course and study it because it will give you a grounding that you now have confidence that you understand the issue. You've studied it. It's not just sort of this black box where you say, oh, you know, of course I believe in intelligence. Okay, well, why take the opportunity to study the topic to challenge yourself. And let's say you are taking that evolution course where maybe it is going to challenge your worldview a little bit. Okay, fine. You know what? There are resources from the pro intelligent design perspective to help balance out what you're learning. Go to Discovery Institute's website, go to Intelligent Design.org, go to EvolutionNews.org, listen to our podcast at ID the Future, where you can hear about the other side of the story. I know it takes some work to get educated on sort of both sides of the issue because, you know, usually you hear just one or the other. But don't pass up opportunities to learn about this topic. It'll benefit you when you have friends, family, kids, whatever down the road who want to talk to you about it.
[00:29:05] Speaker D: Yeah. Thanks for buying me some time there.
[00:29:07] Speaker A: Take Kristen's class, too. It's another great way to get informed. Sorry.
Shameless plug.
[00:29:12] Speaker C: I'll get you dessert at dinner tonight.
[00:29:14] Speaker D: So I think, I think one thing I would say that I've actually over the years heard Casey say as well is to be honest about what you know and don't know. You know, there are a lot of highly educated people out there. You know, I've acknowledged that we've got our atheist friends and agnostic friends and friends that don't see design and, and really are committed, again, to a materialist perspective.
And they're going to come with some great arguments and positions on their end that I will not always have a good response to. And that's okay, to be honest, that I need to go look at their ideas, more or less seek out a resource, or can they provide me with a resource to understand their perspective more like, I do not want to put pressure on our listeners that somehow, if you decide to dabble in this topic, that you need to be a doctor Stephen Meyer and ready to go on, you know, the Joe Rogan show, you know. No, you don't. And most of us. No. Let me just speak for myself.
I am not prepared to answer every question that comes my way by any stretch.
And I think I just have to be honest with my students and my families and people in my circle about that.
I think the other thing is take the time that's given you. And what I mean by that is if you don't feel like you have all the time in the world to read the books and listen to every podcast and so forth. One of the things that I've learned is that there's a lot of things you can do multitasking. And so it is not uncommon that I will be cooking dinner while listening to a podcast. It is not uncommon that I will be mopping the floor while watching a Discovery Science YouTube video that just aired, you know, a long story short video, for example, that are really engaging and entertaining.
And so there's. Or. Or a road trip, you know, Case and I will have a long road trip together in the car. And I recall on our last one, I just kind of put on some pretty lengthy YouTube videos that touched on these options. And what else am I going to do? I'm driving in the car for hours. It's a way to take in information.
[00:31:20] Speaker A: I think we did some Jordan Peterson once on those longer trips.
[00:31:24] Speaker C: And then one of those questions that I know when Steve was on Joe Rogan, I'm sure it was a question Steve for which Steve was unprepared. But Joe offered him some mushrooms, I think.
[00:31:35] Speaker A: Are you recommending mushrooms?
[00:31:36] Speaker C: No, not Joe's type. I mean, there's kinds that go in the salad and then there's Joe Rogan, right?
Yeah, but. No, that's right. Be ready to give a defense with gentleness and Reverence, you know, of course, and, and, and, and be honest, I find that to be attractive.
And I'll close with this myself. I think the one thing that I have found compelling about id, I discovered it several years ago myself, is, and Casey, you made this point in one of the papers that we had to read that it's open and embraces and engages its critics. It you don't shut him, you don't shut them down, you don't close them out.
We actually had to read a book, some selections from a book about the opposition to id.
But I think this is a strength. And you make the point that you can examine another person's worldview or the objections, by the way, in which they argue for their positions. And I thought that was wonderfully wise. And I think that is so true about ID that you guys really charitably, intelligently welcome opposition, because I think it does enrich and it does finally demonstrate, I think, the superiority of the theory of ID over your counterparts. But I love that about id. It's just how you embrace the opposition and talk to them, engaged with them, and put the best arguments against ID in front of people who are for id so that we know both sides of the story.
[00:33:05] Speaker A: Appreciate you saying that, Daniel. And you know, sometimes you get critics who are really fun to engage with and sometimes, you know, the pay that you pay the price for trying to be nice to somebody who really wanted to be nasty back to you. It's happened both ways, but you got to do the right thing no matter what.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: That was Kristin Murray and Casey Luskin discussing the theory of intelligent design, the case against naturalistic explanations of life and the universe, and how you can get involved in these conversations.
Don't miss the first half of this discussion in a separate episode. We're grateful to the producers of the Apologetics profile podcast for permission to share this exchange here. And don't forget to subscribe to our brand new channel on YouTube to enjoy video versions of many of these interviews and commentaries. You'll find the
[email protected] dthefuture that's YouTube.com dthefuture subscribe and start liking videos and share them with your friends and family. I appreciate your support for ID the Future. I'm Andrew McDermott. Thanks for joining us.
[00:34:12] Speaker A: Visit
[email protected] and intelligent design.org this program is copyright Discovery Institute and recorded by its center for Science and Culture.
